The Christian Political Right is an embarrassment to America

It won't last, even if they do. People are pissed about the economy right now, and may be reactionary in their vote. But once they get a dose of gov't under these folks, it's over.

I think they are already workiin' on the public's last nerve. People want solutions. These clowns got nuthin'.

American Idle your talking about the same group that elected W twice. I not sure I have as much faith as you have in the American electorate.

This group passed "embarrasing" a long time ago and has since moved on to "truly frightening." Heaven help you all (no pun intended) if these loons gain control of the Congress in November

The loons are already in power. Nancy Pelosi, without a doubt, is the most mentally unstable individual. It is frightful that she is third in line for the Presidency if something should happen to our president and vice president. Makes me shudder.

We have high unemployment, close to 10 per cent. Some say it is closer to 17 per cent if you count those who have stopped looking for work or are working part time. The answer from the "loons", tax more, spend more, stimulate more.

Americans of all stripes are revolting. The revolt begins in Nov. 2010. Quite frankly,as of now America couldn't sink much lower than it already has.

Clearly, you didn't read post #12.3 to see how wrong your assertion is, ted arndt...

Using God to claim a moral superiority is nothing new.

Remember the Church Lady?

Loved the church lady! My grandma must have been one of the templates that Dana Carvey used. She would walk up to me and ask "How am I doing with the lord"... and use words like special etc....

AI, I really like your practical approach to your beliefs. You went to the town halls to see what was really going on, and you are a big voice of reason here on the vine. FR on it's way...

lol ERich

I had a church lady grandma, too

She would come home from the Church Of Christ all dressed up in her finest and threaten us Catholic kids with 2x4s

I used to have some neighbors that went to church about 3X a week. Thought everything was satanic like toothpaste, Halloween, etc. Loved watching them beat and curse their Kids in the yard to get em to church.

Uthaclena: True Christians have no intentions of taking away rights. Indeed, people come to Christ as their savior by "free will". Every person makes the decision to either follow Christ's teachings, accept his sin atonement for us, or reject him. The God I worship has no interest in "forcing" people to believe. He loves us too much to try that garbage.

I find it perplexing that people here fear Christians so much. The threats lie elsewhere. Christians can be the enemies to you, though they are not, but it deludes you into not knowing who your real enemies are.

I ask you Uthaclena and others here: Which groups have actually taken away anyone's rights and which groups religious or otherwise are REAL threats to our democratic republic.

We have a terrific constitution and bill of rights. We have a government that is divided into three branches as a checks and balance system. This was done by our founders for good reason. They did not want the Church of England or the totalitarian type of abuse of government in private citizen's lives here in America. The New Americans cherished freedom as I do. Consequently, "just because I am a Christian", I will be active in politics to make sure that my individual rights are not taken away.

littleleers

You confuse common rights with "my own group" rights, I think. You surely have a right to lead your life according to your personal beliefs. You surely have the right to advise people on their behaviour based on your own personal beliefs, although that can at times become badgering. What you don't have is the right to enforce your beliefs on another person who holds other beliefs when it does no common harm.

UTHACLENA: What you don't have is the right to enforce your beliefs on another person lds other beliefs when it does no common harm.

Of course, I agree with you. However, even as a Christian, I do have a right to vote my conscience. You or others will most likely not agree with me, but I have the right just as anyone else does in our democratic republic.

What I dislike...and which would make for another great thread, is the fact we have judges overturning the "will of the people" and legislating from the bench. Those individuals are doing what they believe is right, circumventing the proper process. This is wrong. It erodes the faith that Americans have in our system. But, like I said, activist judges...that is for another time and discussion.

How about logical judges stopping theocons from forcing their religous beliefs on the people of california? Simply because the loons voted an unjust law into being doesn't make it ok. If that was the case blacks would still be denied civil rights. But I guess those were activist judges as well...

thanks for proving my point

Nice to know you're not embarassed to let your sheet show.

I think it's an embarrassment to Christianity. Most Christians I know are open, tolerant, intelligent people of faith. But we don't hear about them. It's always the wingnuts that get the press.

We don't hear about them because they appear to hide in the corner. They let the nutcases walk all over them. If they're really true to their religion they'll stand up to fight against the bad seeds.

Not everyone wants to be in the spotlight and all over news Auteur.

AMERICANIDOL: think it's an embarrassment to Christianity. Most Christians I know are open, tolerant, intelligent people of faith. But we don't hear about them. It's always the wingnuts that get the press.

You are so correct. The Christians I know quietly go about being good neighbors, good parents, good citizens. There are wingnuts in every group. It appears that Christians, though, have become the favorite "whipping boy" lately.

Auteur.

We don't hear about them because they appear to hide in the corner

I am not hiding from anyone. But then I do not care to refer to my self as a Christian because of some of the stupid, ignominious actions of some so called Christians. The problem seems to be that Christians (left or right) insist on involving themselves in politics. You wouldn't think that a true Christian would involve themselves national politics because they should realize that they are representatives, ambassadors if you will, of another government: The government, or Kingdom, of God.

They do. The problem is that the extremists tend to drown out the majority of reasonable Christians because they screech much louder and tend to do much more outrageous thing that attract more attention. It's much the same as Muslim extremists and terrorists drowning out the voices of reason from those in thier faith.

Amen!

We have ONE Commandment:

"Do not do those things to others that you would not have them do to you."

To paraphrase Rabbi Hillel, "All else is commentary"

Well put. Especially when you consider that the 10 Commandments were written and meant for the Israelites only, and were meant to be discarded after the birth of Jesus, or so says the book.

Actually, if you read the bible, it plainly states that the 10 commandments were written for the Israelites only, as was the Old Testament Law. neither was never intended to be used or invoked on anyone other than the Israelites.

If you choose to live by them, that is your prerogative, but there is nothing that is biblical about it, just personal choice.

Hey, liberals CLAIM they have moral standards. I just want to know what they are. If they are standards, surely they must be written down somewhere or how would people know what they are?

Spirit, I can not speak for all, and I would like to think that I am a moderate to liberal minded person, but if you need a cheat sheet to determine what your moral or standards are then they are not your morals or standards. They are just what you are being told your morals/standards are. I, for one, do not need some holier than thou hypocrite telling me how to live my life. Ones morals are determined by their upbringing, personal experience and sense of what is just and fair. None of those things are brought into the conversation by the religious fringe, they just believe what someone told them to believe, be that right or wrong.

if you need a cheat sheet to determine what your moral or standards are then they are not your morals or standards.

Nicely put!

Ron in CT

but if you need a cheat sheet to determine what your moral or standards are then they are not your morals or standards.

Conservatives seem to feel that morals and values are only really valid if they are enforced by a powerful, external, authoritarian figure, be it deity, charismatic leader, of deputized follower. They sometimes seem very anti-democratic with their adoration of some monarchical figure up on a throne ready to beat sinners into submission.

Funny that, are they not the sames ones screaming for smaller government, and wanting the government to stay out of their lives. Oh, I guess the key work is "their", they seem to have no problem getting the government to dictate their beliefs upon those that do not share them. Go figure.

I'm a conservative and not a "christian." You can't say they are one and the same. All seem to be proclaiming that here...

No Driftwood, I would not call all conservatives Christians, but the majority of the fringe faith christian groups are conservative. Unfortunately those, like you, sometimes get paint from the broad brush slopped on you as well. But as the old saying goes, when you lie down with dogs you shouldn't be surprised when you wake up with fleas. The conservative movement's acceptance of these faux Christians into their midst implies that they hold like values and ideals. As a young man, my mother always told me that I would be judged by the company I keep, it rings true today as well.

Never mind that Barry Goldwater was waring people about the religious right from the early '80s until his death...

I do have to say that religion and politics don't mix and should never intertwine.

in short, will, the answer is YES!

This was Barry Goldwater's warning about the religious right...

Goldwater was not always such a staunch separationist. Early in his controversial political career he supported tax breaks for private school tuition and a school prayer amendment. But the rise of the intolerant Religious Right caused him to rethink his views, a change that sparked admiration from Americans who disagreed with him on many other things.

When Sandra Day O'Connor was nominated to the Supreme Court in 1981, some Religious Right leaders suspected she might be too moderate on abortion and other social concerns. Moral Majority founder Jerry Falwell told the news media that "every good Christian should be concerned." Replied Goldwater, "Every good Christian should line up and kick Jerry Falwell's ass."

That same year Senator Goldwater complained at length that :
""There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God's name on one's behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both. I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in 'A,' 'B,' 'C,' and 'D.' Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me? And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of 'conservatism.' " (1909-1998) US Senator (R-Arizona) Source: Congressional Record, September 16, 1981 ...

... A few years later he told The Advocate, "I don't have any respect for the Religious Right. There is no place in this country for practicing religion in politics. That goes for Falwell, Robertson and all the rest of these political preachers. They are a detriment to the country."...

... In 1994 he told The Los Angeles Times, "A lot of so-called conservatives don't know what the word means. They think I've turned liberal because I believe a woman has a right to an abortion. That's a decision that's up to the pregnant woman, not up to the pope or some do-gooders or the Religious Right."

...But Goldwater was also deeply worried about the Religious Right's long-term impact on his beloved GOP. "If they succeed in establishing religion as a basic Republican Party tenet," he told U.S. News & World Report in 1994, "they could do us in." In an interview with The Post that same year, Goldwater observed, "When you say 'radical right' today, I think of these moneymaking ventures by fellows like Pat Robertson and others who are trying to take the Republican Party and make a religious organization out of it. If that ever happens, kiss politics goodbye."

But most importantly, Goldwater was deeply concerned about the Religious Right's relentless war on the Constitution and basic American freedoms. In a Sept. 15, 1981 senate speech, Goldwater noted that Falwell's Moral Majority, anti-abortion groups and other Religious Right outfits were sometimes referred to in the press as the "New Right" and the "New Conservatism." Responded Goldwater, "Well, I've spent quite a number of years carrying the flag of the 'Old Conservatism.' And I can say with conviction that the religious issues of these groups have little or nothing to do with conservative or liberal politics. The uncompromising position of these groups is a divisive element that could tear apart the very spirit of our representative system, if they gain sufficient strength." Insisted Goldwater, "Being a conservative in America traditionally has meant that one holds a deep, abiding respect for the Constitution. We conservatives believe sincerely in the integrity of the Constitution. We treasure the freedoms that document protects. . . "By maintaining the separation of church and state," he explained, "the United States has avoided the intolerance which has so divided the rest of the world with religious wars . . . Can any of us refute the wisdom of Madison and the other framers? Can anyone look at the carnage in Iran, the bloodshed in Northem Ireland, or the bombs bursting in Lebanon and yet question the dangers of injecting religious issues into the affairs of state?"

Goldwater concluded with a waming to the American people. "The religious factions will go on imposing their will on others," { he said,} "unless the decent people connected to them recognize that religion has no place in public policy. They must learn to make their views known without trying to make their views the only alternatives. . . We have succeeded for 205 years in keeping the affairs of state separate from the uncompromising idealism of religious groups and we mustn't stop now" { he insisted}. "To retreat from that separation would violate the principles of conservatism and the values upon which the framers built this democratic republic."

http://www.liberalslikechrist.org/about/Goldwater.html

Useful information. Thank you.

No problem...

Truthlover: [I'd be less negative on the Christian Right if these folks did what Christ said: feed the poor, did not amass great wealth, did not kill (or vote for killing), and all that good stuff.]

Wow, you have made a very general, all inclusive statement. Personally, I judge a Christian by what the bible says " You shall know them by their fruits".

And just out of curiousity, what is so evil about wealth? And how does one measure that? To me, it is more important how I use my resources. I have witnessed all too frequently those with few resources, given government help, and then that is squandered. And how do you know if I do or don't "feed the poor?"
You have no idea, what I, as a Christian, have done for others. We do what we do because of our love of our Lord.

It is silly to jealous of someone just because they have more money than I do. And I live in Seattle, where one of the world's richest men live...Bill Gates. as far as I know, he isn't a Christian, but I admire him because he used his brains and hard work to get where he is today. He earned it honestly...like many others, and that is what counts.

You are right when you say that the bible says"we shall know them by their fruits" but the bible also says that we are not going to get to heaven just on how good we are, it will be faith and good works together. We are only going to make it there based on our prayer life, in other words having a good relationship with God. Christians do not always do what's right and it is sad that unbelievers expect us to walk a straight line when they have plenty of faults their own selves, because the bible says all have sinned and come short of God's glory, there is none that does good no not one! And btw not all Christians beat people over the head with the bible, sure some have done it at times, I am guilty, but give us a break we are human just like you are, Mr. and Mrs. perfect, oops Ms. perfect! When I invite someone to Church I usually just ask them once, that is enough. And when we stand before God we will not have any excuse, there will be some that tell God that they didnt go to Church because they were asked too many times? Wow!

Your statement is embarrassingly ignorant and ill informed. A more accurate comparison would be the Taliban are no different than the Nazis were.

The Nazi's killed those who were defective in some way, Jewish, devout Chrisitians/Catholics, and Romas. The Taliban kill anyone who do not follow their versian of Islam (Wahhabi).

You want to know about the Taliban...read the book "A Thousand Splendid Suns", by Khaled Hosseini. He was born and raised in Afghanistan.

Your hyperbole in comparing Taliban with Christians is very offensive.

Did I just read:The Nazi's killed those who were defective in some way, Jewish, devout Chrisitians/Catholics, and Romas. The Taliban kill anyone who do not follow their versian of Islam (Wahhabi).? What does that have to do with anything.

The Taliban is a religious organization, just like the fringe faith movements we are seeing so much of in this country, there isn't much difference, only scope.

Did I just read:The Nazi's killed those who were defective in some way, Jewish, devout Chrisitians/Catholics, and Romas. The Taliban kill anyone who do not follow their versian of Islam (Wahhabi).? What does that have to do with anything.

Jeff: You are aware that the Nazi's considered the individuals they exterminated either defective or inferior. Perhaps inferior would have been a better term. I am certain you are aware that the Nazi ideology was to create a Master Race.

Islam as practiced by the Taliban (Wahhabism) see things in a similar light. Their belief system is more than "just" religion. It is a total ideology. The Taliban consider themselves "superior" much like the Nazis considered themselves and those that fit the Aryan Ideal.

If you are Christian, if you are not a "faithful" Muslim, if you are a woman, if you are anything BUT what the Taliban prescribe is the correct way to live, eat, breathe, dress, work, etc., then your life is worth little to nothing.

I stand by what I said. The Taliban and the Nazis share far more commonalities than differences.

There are fringe groups in the United States. You have the Ku Klux Klan, the Aryan Nations, and smaller, lesser known groups. But people here recognize those groups as fringe and kooky. These groups DO NOT participate in government or make national policy by commandeering the judiciary.

The Taliban is a religious organization, just like the fringe faith movements we are seeing so much of in this country, there isn't much difference, only scope.em>>

The Taliban and their Wahhabi Islam is a Total Ideology, not just purely religion. Wherever they are in charge, they ARE the government. We utilize the constitution, but they, and the Taliban and other radicals, have the Quran.

The Taliban and their Wahhabi Islam is a Total Ideology, not just purely religion. Wherever they are in charge, they ARE the government. We utilize the constitution, but they, and the Taliban and other radicals, have the Quran. These were my words in response to:

The Taliban is a religious organization, just like the fringe faith movements we are seeing so much of in this country, there isn't much difference, only scope

Do you have anything to add to the conversation or are you going to nit pick a irrelevant point.

WILDWONDERFUL

Our nation is sinking into a sea of sin. We have lost our moral compass.

The sky is falling! The sky is falling! It's the Fall of the Roman Empire all over again! Sheesh!!!

still true, no matter what's falling.

The sky began falling in 2000.

The sky began falling in 2000

Have to disagree....it started in 2008 with the Mortgage Meltdown and it has been downhill since then. Poll after poll shows that more Americans are feeling like the "sky is falling". Back in 2000, I do not have a recollection of record unemployment and a failing economy.

9sling......God is always embarrassing to the lukewarm. Its not the fault of the Christian right. Its a matter of being neither hot or cold.

Totally ridiculous and laughable, that the modern-day American fundamentalists and evangelicals think they are what God is all about. Modern-day American fundamentalist and evangelicals are nothing but arrogant, self-absorbed, narcissistic hypocrits.

What prophet do you speak of? There were a handful.

The one of the ones this article is about with his 'name' in the title of their belief system.

So what would you gauge "effectiveness" by?

So what would you gauge "effectiveness" by?

How well someone got their message across... Get a book that parallels the teachings of Buddha with most of those of Jesus. Then look at the behavior of the majority of the followers of both over the years. One of them left an effective message; one did not.

Hmmm. 2000 years and still spreading the light and saving souls. Sounds pretty ineffective. You see, Christs message was all about not placing your faith in the things of this world. The world is what we should ALL be embarrassed of.

still spreading the light and saving souls.

You believe that to be happening but ignore all the darkness that belief system has brought to others. You have no clue whether a belief in a character in a book will have any effect on what happens when you die.

#27.1:What prophet do you speak of? There were a handful.

Correction if I may: There are a handful!

Passion and truth are relative, give me logic and fact any day. I am sure that Hitler had passion on his side, and truth is in the telling. Feelings are a poor substitute for fact and logic.

Hitler certainly was not lukewarm. He will likely burn in hell. But this thread is about being "embarrassed". Hitler probably was embarrassed by very little. The LUKEWARM are the ones embarrassed by faith.

No one is embarrassed by faith, all are embarrassed by the fringe of faith, the snake oil salesmen passing themselves off as men of god. Those that preach hate, exclusion, fear and the wrath of the Old Testament God.

Case in point Rev. Steven Anderson, a so called pastor that believes that someone would be justified in assassinating the current president and that if you are gay he hopes you get brain cancer and die. To his followers and those of his ilk, he is passionate and truthful, just what truth he is telling and who it came from is suspect. Again I say, give me logic and fact any day. This idiot and those like him are the problem, unfortunately many of these people gravitate to the far right wing of the GOP. Once they find a home they propagate like the cockroaches they are and all you hear is their voices in every conversation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBq2FFYglt4&feature=related

Well, the thread is suggesting that America is "embarrassed" by the "Christian right". We could talk snake oil sales and corruption within religious institutions all day. I say SPECIFICALLY, the LUKEWARM are the only ones really "embarrassed". And for sure, America is sadly becoming lukewarm.

I am saying that we are embarrassed by the dregs of the christian faith, and if you profess such faith you should be embarrassed too, unless of course, you agree with such horse @!$%#. As the only people out there raising their voices are those fringe freaks, it puts a disgusting spin on Christianity as a whole. When will those that don't believe in the hate, fear, exclusion and vile rhetoric speak up? If you do not stand against it, you must surely, by default, stand for it, there is not middle ground. My question to you is; why are you not embarrassed by such vitriol and evil?

9sling, I did not see your answer: why are you not embarrassed by the fringe of christianity? Is it because you are one of them?

Oh, I am indeed embarrassed by a handful of "Christians". BUT... this thread claims it is the "Christian right". Pretty broad brushed. So again, if, in general, the "christian right" embarrasses you, I'd say there is another deeper issue within yourself.

Unfortunately, the far right wing of the GOP is made up of these kinds of people, so that lends to a pretty broad brush stroke when talking about roughly 20% of the electorate. To say that all Christians are on the far right is incorrect, but this article is not talking about all Christians, again, just those in the very vocal and very far right wing. As to your "handful", I am sorry to say that it is much more than just a handful, and again, anyone not actively opposing such views is, by default, accepting them, which is no different than espousing the ideas themselves.

As to being embarrassed, I was embarrassed for my country with Bush tried to leave a press conference through the closet door, I was embarrassed when he couldn't speak the english language, I am not embarrassed by the fringe faith right, I am appalled. They should be called out for what they are and the fact that they are as un-American as the terrorists they are so fearful of.

edited below.

stoning and burning sinners and nonbelievers is out. But then you know this and just wanted to make a cheap and ill informed attack on Democrats.

90% of the time that's all newsvine is - cheap, uninformed attacks on faith (esp. Christianity). That's what this thread is. You know what's really embarrassing? Men who cant act like men.

Justin,

How was my comment ill informed? I don't believe in the Obama ideology and in the direction he and this current Congress is taking this country. Wait isn't that freedom of speech? It must not fall into the liberal confines of modern society. It's funny how when a liberal speaks it's justified, but everyone else it's just an attack. And "Yes" I'm making fun of you.

9sling and Redneckstray, can any rightwingers go more than 5 seconds without playing the victim? If someone thinks a theocracy is bad idea they are against Christianity and if they point out that you are wrong they are trying to silence your freedom of speech. How do you have rational debate with someone who always views themselves as the victims of human progress.